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| My mistake for using the word research. But it still stands that Miyata's counter depends on "learning how to specifically take [a boxer] down." Tell me if I'm wrong, but during the episode did Miyata not state that the weakness of the Dempsy Roll is that it is a very specific pattern that, like a pendulum, can be stopped once you catch the speeed? That's why I think just speeding up the move is a bad idea. I'm not going to pretend like Miyata doesn't have those weaknesses that you stated, and since this is Hajime no Ippo I totally anticipate that Miyata would lose against Ippo. I just mean for the sake of a "bite your nails" fight, just leveling up the Dempsey Roll is a little lame. Well if you don't add moves, then that's just something I don't know. I don't claim to be a fan of boxing, but as far as this show goes, when I see moves like Flicker jabs, Dempsey Rolls, and Heartbreakers (whatever Date's move was called), I just assume that, for the sake of the show, Ippo could add something to his command list. |
| I just wanted to say that Miyata has to get someone's timing down before he counters - just like in his match with gregory. But if what you meant was that dempsey roll is easy to counter, I'd agree. Still, it's Ippo's sunday punch, he can't abandon it. And as I said, levelling up means making it effective against anyone, even counter punchers. Why do you think that speeding it up would be bad? I mean, do you even know how Miyata is going to counter the dempsey roll? And do you think speeding it up would affect how it's countered? Remember no one knew how ippo was gonna beat vorg until it was shown. And no one anticipates Miyata losing, ever. noteDhero said: I just assume that, for the sake of the show, Ippo could add something to his command list. Remember arnie gregory? That's what's gonna happen to ippo's new move, except that miyata would crush it much sooner. Also, this is not shonen. You don't just add moves in boxing. I mean, the majority of the people in ippo only have 1 sunday punch, and takamura has none. Plus, it would be ridiculous to think that learning punches automatically makes you a better boxer. |
fisher_88Jul 6, 2009 11:45 PM
| I never said that Ippo should abandon it. I was talking about "adding" not "ditching." I think you keep forgetting that. I mean that speeding it up as an only defense against Miyata is a bad idea. I could care less about the other people he's going to face, since I know he'll win probably without any pressing effort. My guess is that Miyata counters the Dempsey Roll by getting the timing of the punches and striking between them, when he's at the center of his wide swaying. Since he already anticipates Ippo's speeding up the Dempsey Roll, I don't see how it will be such a problem when they get into the ring, but that's totally up to how the fight is executed. I see what you're saying with Gregory, but just speeding up the same move that he already has a handle on just doesn't seem like enough against Miyata. Then again, Ippo could probably just not use the move at all. But this is shounen. That's why I've made the point that I have. I haven't read the manga, but when I see Takamura and Hawk with shadow clones, glowing red and green eyes, and all of these other things, I can't help but feel like there's a lot of shounen tossed on top of the boxing to make it more entertaining. |
| Good ending to a good anime. Overall I enjoyed it. It wasn't great and I enjoyed the first series better, but it was still good. 7/10 |
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| What I was saying with the other people is that if Miyata can counter the demspey roll, so can other people. Remember when I said that another can come up with a counter to a punch they know what's coming. noteDhero said: My guess is that Miyata counters the Dempsey Roll by getting the timing of the punches and striking between them, when he's at the center of his wide swaying. Since he already anticipates Ippo's speeding up the Dempsey Roll, I don't see how it will be such a problem when they get into the ring, but that's totally up to how the fight is executed. Why didn't sendo or sanada try this same tactic? Anyone can find the timing to such a simple left-right motion. All I'm saying is that there are other reasons why the dempsey roll is so devastating. Granted miyata can overcome those advantages. And how can miyata anticipate ippo's improvements? And what are the effects of speeding up the dempsey roll? (hint: it's just not making it faster). You're right in that speeding up the move is not enough against Miyata, but as I have been saying, ippo is not just fighting against miyata. I agree with the shounen comment, but that was just tossed on top like you said. It's not as if a better dempsey roll can automatically defeat miyata. |
| My point is that Miyata is the only boxer on the show that depends on counters as his signature move, no? So of course Sendo or anyone else wouldn't use the same tactic because that's just not their style. That's why I find speeding up the Dempsey Roll to be lacking in a fight against Miyata and not other people. Because the only person I see fit to giving me an exciting fight against Ippo now is Miyata (until he goes for the world belt), since the history with both of their characters is there. Ippo's the main character, so no other bout is really going to make me feel like Ippo could lose. Speeding up the Dempsey Roll makes it more devastating because the punches are coming a lot faster. Not only that but I assume that the strength that he gains in his lower body and core to go faster also means having harder punches. But again, if Miyata anticipates all of this to happen, all he has to do is block/evade the first few in a fight to get a handle on the timing (this is one of his strengths, analyzing an opponent and keeping cool in a fight). But if he's not seeing the move until well into the match when his stamina starts to deplete, then it will be over before it begins. |
| C'mon, if people discover how to counter the dempsey roll, of course they would use it if they can. This is not a matter of style, it's common sense. They mentioned this in the episode as well. And believe me, there are other strong boxers besides miyata. You're correct, speeding up the dempsey roll makes it more powerful. Remember this is not a strategy specific to Miyata, but for his next fight. You're also correct, that his lower body would strengthen, and this is a bulding block to having a better demspey roll. Miyata can't anticipate what Ippo will improve on, that's ridiculous. |
fisher_88Jul 7, 2009 1:49 PM
| I understand that there are strong boxers besides Miyata, but because this show is about Ippo, the only person who stands a chance in beating him for the belt (as slim as it is) is Miyata. None of the other boxers matter. Didn't Miyata say at the end of the episode that he expected Ippo to use a faster Dempsey Roll? Honestly, I don't remember what's happened in the past with the move since it's been 2 years since I saw the first show, and Ippo only fought Nao in this one. But didn't Kamogawa (at the end of the episode) talk about how the Dempsey Roll is anathema to modern boxing, and that's why no one really uses it anymore? |
| Miyata is OPBF champ, he doesn't need Ippo's belt. And others matter because they all will be figuring out how to beat the dempsey roll. And even though you may not care about the other boxers, Ippo sure does, because he is the one who has to fight them. And it is ridiculous to think that Miyata is the only one who can beat Ippo - that's a huge shonen assumption right there. Did he? I thought he said he'd expect Ippo would improve it. Again - faster/more powerful for next fight, better legs for better dempsey, as kamogawa/ippo's response to modern boxing. Having a faster dempsey roll is not an anti-Miyata strategy! |
fisher_88Jul 7, 2009 2:51 PM
| He doesn't need Ippo's belt, but he wants a win against Ippo, and for right now, that means a shot at the belt, right? I thought he did. Doesn't improving the move mean making it faster? I don't see how else it could be improved. Well, that's true, making the Roll faster isn't an anti-Miyata strategy, but Ippo would have never thought to improve it had it not been for Kamogawa saying he wasn't a match for Miyata. The emphasis of this episode was on Miyata and Ippo, not Ippo's next fight. |
| What I meant was Miyata wouldn't be fighting Ippo for his belt, rather Ippo would be fighting for Miyata's belt. That's what I have been saying all along - improving also means making it effective against anyone, including counter users. Having better legs is a foundation for that. Kamogawa knew the weakness all along, don't you think he wouldn't improve it? Especially when his next opponent says 'I will destroy the dempsey roll'? Again, eventually everyone will figure out how to beat the dempsey roll, so sooner or later they would have to improve it. Figuring out how to beat opponents is also a trainer's job. |
fisher_88Jul 7, 2009 3:08 PM
noteDhero said: I understand that there are strong boxers besides Miyata, but because this show is about Ippo, the only person who stands a chance in beating him for the belt (as slim as it is) is Miyata. None of the other boxers matter. Eiji Date would beg to differ. The fact is that Ippo has lost before and that means he could plausibly lose again. And there are plenty of ways to improve on the Dempsey Roll aside from rotation speed. Ways that'll make it strong against counters. We'll be learning about that next season. Plus, there's the psychological impact that comes with successful execution of a move your opponent thinks is useless - if Miyata or any other boxer doesn't foresee the changes made to the Dempsey Roll, it can screw over their entire fight plan. |
| Shameless Blog Plugging: animetics.net |
| I think Date is the exception that proves the rule. Not to mention that at that point, Ippo needed a loss, and that Date overwhelmed him in experience. I'm not saying that Ippo won't lose, especially once he get's to the world stage, but that there has yet to be anyone with a story that rivals Ippo's to make me even consider it. Date had that story, Miyata has that story. I haven't seen anyone else. Like I said, I don't pretend to know a lick about boxing, so I only see the most obvious way of improving the Dempsey Roll. I look forward to next season when we see the fruit of his labor. |
| ^^ yeah you may see Ippo as very strong, and the story is obviously about him, but as a boxer, he's very vulnerable, that is why kamogawa made the comment about modern boxing. so he's definitely not as strong as you're making him out to be. even miyata is a lot more fragile than he may seem, especially since he's so stubborn, prideful, and easily provoked. |
| Oh no, I don't see Ippo as that strong either. Kamogawa hasn't done much to push him, just beat the basics in. Just like with Takamura. I say what I said because it's a shounen show, and one of those conventions is an overpowered, undertrained "loser" who beats everyone. And I know Miyata is fragile, what with the glass jaw, and wanting to stay in a weight class that kills him just so he can face Ippo, but he's the only interesting character (besides pre-Ippo Date) that the show offers someone like me. |
| This season was disappointing, especially when compared to how much I enjoyed the first. There weren't that many interesting matches, the Takamura vs Hawk arc had a few bad/boring episodes, and the ending was ok. There was also a lack of my favorite character Sendou, but I already knew he wouldn't do much this season so that doesn't bother me. Hopefully the next season will be better. Score; 7/10. |
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| Great last episode. That's for episodes such as these that I like HnI and that I watch it ! Can't wait for a third season. |
 In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
| I really love this series. It's a shame it got cut again. I hope there'll be an announcement for the continuation XD Anyway, I haven't read the manga so I'm not spoiled yet. I'm looking forward to the new Dempsey Roll, Ricardo Martinez, Miyata surpassing Ippo, etc etc etc Anyway, I'll rate it the same as the first series. 10/10 |
| Well the ambigious ending, and I expected it due to the series panned out in the first place. I liked the episode, there were some funny bits, and Ippo's old tenacity came back, excited if there is a 3rd season, definitely watch it! Nice series, not as good as the first, but that was orginal, furthermore there was quite a bit of a gap between the seasons, so you can expect them to have some flaws! XD |
| hope they do better next season |
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| this season is not bad look like the manga will keep continue till i reach 70 year old :P |
| just when it started to feel like Hajime no Ippo again they cut it off :/ I can't agree with the coaches decision to ignore the problem and try to power through it, its unrealistic and will just hurt his boxer more. its better that he expand he repertoire of attacks first and then find out from his coach that his favorite attack shouldn't be used against people talented at countering unless their guard is broken and they're half dead already. |
| I wonder how much canon they will change in season 2. |
jacobpaige said: just when it started to feel like Hajime no Ippo again they cut it off :/ I can't agree with the coaches decision to ignore the problem and try to power through it, its unrealistic and will just hurt his boxer more. its better that he expand he repertoire of attacks first and then find out from his coach that his favorite attack shouldn't be used against people talented at countering unless their guard is broken and they're half dead already. I thought they announced another season :S I was really looking forward for the next match up against ippo :( One of the better fights in the manga or at least the premise behind it |
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| Enjoyed it from Start To Finish Cant Wait For the next Season 10/10 |
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| A 3rd season for next year wouldn't be too bad =] but seeing Ippo all hyped up is nice and all but he should set his sights on the world title already =/ |
| When looking back at the whole series there wasn't too much Ippo involved in the series when compared to that of the original series. Well it would be interesting to see what would happen in the next series..... |
| あらあら。。。＾＾ |
| oh and also guess this anime wont end until it its Ippo vs Ricardo Martinez So i guess after this season there will be 1 more. or 1 big season |
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| That's one huge cliffhanger ending. But to me, the series as a whole is good. The series focuses more on other characters, especially their fights instead of Ippo's fights. He only have one major fight and that's against Hammer Nao. The second one.. I don't think I consider that major.. since he finished that match in less than a min.. lol. Despite what people said, I think Hawk VS Takamura is one epic fight. I do hope for a season 3 due to the cliffhanger ending but I'm feeling very negative.. lol. The first season started airing in 2000 and the second season started airing in 2009. (excluding the movie and OVA) That is really one huge gap so I doubt a season 3 would be here so soon yet. |
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| This episode felt like the beginning of a season. :P |
| Not the best last ep. However, not too bad either. I still prefer season 1. |
| They SO better make a season 3 for this!!! I want to see Ippo vs Miyata!!! |
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| hopefully we don't have to wait 8 years for a next season. even though there is a manga, no way in hell am i going to read the manga with an action genre. well, whatever. i'm not going to compare both seasons since i watched them simultaneously. 10/10 no doubt about it |
| Wow! This was a very nice, well done episode! Not to say others in this series weren't, it's just that Ippo had some good dramatic moments. We didn't get a lot of that this season. This was more Ippo and friends and it was nice to see the focus come squarely back onto him. I have some gripes, like it was really late to explain the New Challenger title when it really doesn't become relevant until the end. As for the season, I enjoyed it quite a bit overall. There was good animation and some great fights. And it did a good job of building up and fleshing out the cast and Ippo's new obstacles. My least favorite element was the music. I'm not gonna pretend I know sh*t about good directing, so I'll leave that subject alone. But besides the opening theme, none of the music did much for me. It didn't hold a candle to the great OST's I've been listening to since I started the first Ippo series. I missed some of the opening themes from the previous series, but I understand you have to move on. It's just that there was a certain, really important feel that this OST was missing. Too light, too generic for my tastes.  |
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| TO THE MANGA! |
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| Sigh...*waits for another decade* |
| The series ended so abruptly fast! :-( Would've liked it to be like 1st season with 70+ episodes.. 26 is awfully short and it ended so suddenly.. left me wanting more! The upcoming fights looks all promising such as Aoki's title match (!), Takamura's title defense (!) and Ippo Vs Miyata (?).. nothing much for Kimura but after 26 episodes we finally learn the meaning of the title "The New Challenger". Alternately I had the thought that the "new challenger" would be Miyata.. but with a twist of events it was Ippo that was actually the new challenger haha Miyata in this episode was like a spoilt brat trying to pick a fight with Ippo.. he was really full of himself haha I hate to accept that Ippo is trailing behind him :-P I hope the next season we be released soon.. :-D |
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| This series focused a lot on Takamura's title match. Still good though. As for this episode, it was good, but it felt much more like a regular episode than a finale. I hope the manga gets done quicker so we get another Ippo series soon. |
| I want to continue onto the manga, which chapter should I start with? |
| I want more |
| seems like there won't be a season for a while :(. Series was awesome :P |
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