| Wait, how old is Jolenta now? Is it 39 or 29 years old? |
| “You should enjoy the little detours to the fullest. Because that's where you'll find the things more important than what you want.” |
| @Comander-07 Nah, God does not play dice |
| “You should enjoy the little detours to the fullest. Because that's where you'll find the things more important than what you want.” |
| @Hikioyukioyui567 still the same voice actor who voiced her before? Japanese seiyuu has a wide range of voice.. |
| “You should enjoy the little detours to the fullest. Because that's where you'll find the things more important than what you want.” |
| I knew it was going to be either Grabowski or Jolenta. Great reveal! Also, I love that their debate in the carriage is related to what Oczy said to Badeni regarding how he shouldn't be isolated and allow others to give their opinions and criticisms. A nice non-violent debate between an atheist and an agnostic. Great stuff this episode. |
| Draka and Schmidt conversation was great. Schmidt is radical in his head until he met Draka who straight up denied god. Being an atheist in those times was special type of heresy. Left Schmidt baffled for a while. In the "discussion" both had valid points on their own but from modern stand point Draka seems more logical although Schmidt line of thinking is not wrong persay either. Really liked it. And settled through coin toss appropriate. Guttendberg & Luthar has dropped in this world. And these guys are here to use that chaos for more chaos. Liberation of information. Anti censorship & suppression. "More free information leads to a freer world" Couldn't agree more. I anticipated it. But still Jolenta so good to be back... |
| the debate was interesting and very fun at the same time... dude was speechless when Draka said she don't believe in god I feel a little weird with how the heliocentrism's knowledge have been "diluted"... Oczy's book was already the personal impressions of someone not very aware of the technicalities, and now they have to hold into the (supposedly photographic) memory of this girl who gave a fast look on the book ^^' but if they say that will encourage ppl into question, well... sure anyway, Jolenta is back! |
| I know it's not entirely impossible, but to fully and perfectly memorize contents of a 40+ page book (about alien subject) you read just once seems far-fetched to me. Didn't expect to see Jolenta again! Nice. |
| @fatimilla_z me too (watching in portuguese) they keep talking about their leader as "she" and "her", so I got surprised seeing that some ppl here were surprised was Jolenta (or thought could be someone else) |
| While Draka's uncle did make a shitty move offering up Draka he was going to be hanged and only then was his hand forced to uphold his conviction to live even if it means doing something he doesn't want to, and he did know Draka is smart and be able to handle things better than anyone else he knows, although from his reaction Draka exceeded his expectations still. I see him as cowardly and amoral rather than immoral explicitly, a very ordinary person. Draka was angry feeling betrayed but also showed she will miss him anyway and this did lead to a fate where Draka's life is changing. Pretty much nearly every character in the story has been nuanced and flawed making them feel more realistic but because of their environment it becomes difficult to judge them too harshly. Schmidt being dumbfounded at Draka's atheism was amusing. I do find his views interesting except the views against medicine which make his views not make sense since even if he goes by feelings people have a will to survive and save others so the natural thing is try to save them from death rather than to let them die. I think what he meant about evolution and all that was he was saying people should live in the moment and as someone who gets stuck in their head a lot I think there is truth to that even though I also see value in having time for reflection. There is also truth in his view on freedom of information but Badeni's view from before also was not entirely wrong that quality of information matters. I wonder how much Jolenta has changed and if she is fine with the people below her spilling blood including of innocents for their cause. KyouKaiTen said: Wait, how old is Jolenta now? Is it 39 or 29 years old? She was 14 and a 25 year time skip so she is 39. |
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| Great episode as always. Really liked the theological discussion between Draka and Schmidt. And I totally predicted that Jolenta was going to be the leader of the Heresy Liberation Squad! Man, it sure feels good to be right. Can't wait for the next one! |
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| YES! JOLENTA IS THE LEADER! |
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| A lot of their individual respective positions was made clear already in the time we spent in episodes leading up to this one before they met and ever had any interaction, but this really solidified the two opposing camps of Schmidt's and Draka's worldviews and belief system (though two opposing camps they may be, but as representatives of them both are intelligent, logical, and pragmatic enough to at least temporarily seek mutual alignment and cooperation against the Catholic theocracy and terror regime). Draka's is more clear-cut and unambiguous; she's a staunch atheist. In Schmidt's case, he seems like a believer in some form of animism. The closest to major organized religion it would probably become is maybe bearing some resemblance to some of the Dharmic faiths, like Hinduism, which have animistic elements. Even though the setting is obviously medieval Poland-inspired, it still is a Japanese show with all our characters speaking Japanese (not in-universe), so it's difficult for something like Shinto not to immediately come to mind as well. Chinese Taoism also. And so on. Either way, it's not clearly defined but the conundrum is that the more one sought to clearly define it, the greater form it would take in hierarchy, organized rituals, etc., and then it would probably be inherently reflexively rejected by Schmidt himself as a new illegitimate would-be aristocracy or institutional hierarchy, overly concerned with and a slave to formalism. So it remaining decentralized, without any foundational guiding sacred text or defined roles or offices, and therefore somewhat intangible, seems like a significant part of the appeal and argument for its legitimacy. One thing is for certain - that if it were to be compared to any world religion, the Abrahamic religions seem furthest from it, with what one could argue is their over-elevation, even deification of mankind and the role of man, and anthropomorphization of the godhead. What's delightful to me is that I could watch the scene featuring their exchange, follow their conversation, and afterward come away not fully agreeing with either one. I agree with Draka's sense of practicality and utilitarianism, that everything - every tool which can be put to use to better someone's life, safety, comfort, and the advancement of technology and the world, should be done, and let all sentimental hangups about it as an artificial self-imposed limitation out of some sense of reverence or something like that, be damned. I don't agree with their atheism. I agree with Schmidt's - what's in effect, a creationist argument. That logically it doesn't jive for me that at the origin point of the universe, that something can come from nothing. There has to be some form of origin behind it all - even if one were to expand on modern knowledge of the Big Bang theory, universe expanding and contracting heat death and entropy theory, multiverse (parallel universes) theory, etc. Even if you harnessed all established knowledge derived from modern computational astrophysics (which, of course, wouldn't have been available to the characters in this time period). Even if you have to go back hundreds of billions, trillions, an octillion, nonillion, a decillion, a googolplex number of years - at some point lies the origin and that to me is what someone could call "God" even if it's assumed it would be something unintelligible to a human or any other animal brain, and pointless and futile to attempt to ascribe an ego or personality to it, let alone a human one. (Although not knowing that for a fact and self-awareness and recognition that I do not and cannot at present know it for a fact, I suppose places me closer to the agnostic camp) Yet he loses me when he starts to go on about the impermissible nature of advancing medical science and technology to save lives and improve quality of life and welfare, as if this would be an act of defiance flouting God's "natural will". This seems more in line with the Christian fundamentalist perspective, that everything is preordained in some way and trying to actually take independent action to change your fate is somehow an insult to God, denying his grace and questioning his plan and design. Even if Schmidt's god isn't the Christian or general Abrahamic god, he seems to replace that figure and role with the cult of "nature" or "the will of the universe". This shouldn't be utilized to justify restricting human agency. If everything in the entirety of the universe is natural, there is a god or gods, and he/she/they made the forest, the rivers, the planets, the ants, and the humans alike, then logically humans are just as much a natural part and extension of the universe and God's will/design as any other individual creature or natural feature or aspect of it, and therefore anything humans do, including to better their own lives and condition individually or collectively, can arguably be described as perfectly natural. So I never got that line of thinking, which is a common piece of logic (which to me is illogical) you often see in people who share some of Schmidt's beliefs. But don't get me wrong. I don't dislike at all the characters having these views and eloquently expressing them to each other. That one, as a member of the audience, may agree and disagree with individual parts of both of what they're saying and have a third view just makes it all the more engaging and adds depth and realism to these characters and their world. To me those characters are endlessly more interesting than ones you agree with every single thing they say on or disagree with every single thing they say. Or like or dislike every single thing they do. Because it's unrealistic. In reality you could have people like Draka and Schmidt and it would probably be great fun to have spirited, fierce debates with them. They're the kind of people who could say something you consider brilliant and presciently insightful one moment, and then utterly asinine and/or seemingly contradictory to their previous statements the next. Because they're human and therefore flawed and don't have all the answers. That affects every single character and every one of us in the audience both. |
| I wonder what Jolenta's ideology is after everything that happened. She might be an atheist, but probably she still believes in God but not in the Church. |
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| Draka exposing the crudeness of the Church, not to mention her uncle's betrayal, towards the Bishop to see that the authority has been diminishing, and him seeking clearance on the matter, gets a rude awakening on the book of heliocentrism, that sparked a killing from within. It's certainly fate for Schmidt and his men of the Heretic Liberation Front to meet yet another person who read the book, but couldn't disclose much due to the sensitive nature of the content itself. As much as Draka's uncle knew that the fate of the cosmos would come to her, Draka burning the book in retaliation only meant that Schmidt had no choice but to bring her to their leader, given her good memory to take the advantage to turn into money. And it becomes clear that since Draka isn't interested in the Church's orthodoxy and is pretty much a free believer herself, Schmidt being even more surprised of the objective that God had set out for him to complete, and the contrast of Draka going against God's ideals to progress mankind, they both may have different ideals, but the common goal is the same. Even when the sun rises each day, Draka finding herself being misconstrued while Schmidt praises God for it, it's telling. But to get the book's ideology across the world in a fast manner which its leader wants to spread the word in order to break the Church's beliefs, Schmidt understands the landscape all too well and wants to induce a society of freedom and free people from ridiculous rules, a Reformation to accept heliocentrism. And to think that their leader is Nowak's daughter Jolenta, the links finally click. This will be a new generation who'll purse the faith widespread. |
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| JOLENTA OH OH OH OH OHHHH |
  me candies:        |
| @KyouKaiTen yeah I would hope your god atleast knows the difference between dice and coins. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| Welp 👀 nothing like a conversation to skirt being sold off or used for labor. Talked her way out of the rat trap 👏 but man did they have some special guests. The nomads, the Church, and now the revolutionaries all in one place. Draka is honest, gotta give some credit there. Always for the money, and nothing less. Bathing in the morning sun is also a quirky habit for the revolutionary. Still obvious these groups couldn't be more far apart |
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| Drake sure is a guts one, burning the book right in front of them. A debate between god exist or not. And at last we finally see Jolenta, she looks so pretty and mature now, maybe a little too much. And she the leader, Drake sure looked surprised and curios after learning that she's the leader. |
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