Yeah... And live in the US under Romney and you'll see another tactic : Stealing from the poor to give to tech bitch.
Oops, I mean the rich.
:o
Wow, France imposes a 75% Tax on the wealthy.
- Thread starter Sam Fisher
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Oops, I mean the rich.
:o
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
No no VV. I got the sarcasm-set up question. 75% tax means that the government owns 75% of businesses. The growth of business depends upon profits. People take risks to invest money into businesses because they want a return. Not just the rich but everyone with a 401k. Money makes money and a 75% rake stagnates incentive for growth. Who wants to put in 20 hours of overtime at work to get paid for only 5? Sure there should be a sliding scale for taxation. But at some point there had to be a limit. Who wants to run into any business only see 25% of their profits? They don't care what void is left behind by a company moving out. Even on an individual basis. If rich people move out they take their money with them. They won't be buying cars or houses or eating in those restaurants or buying their clothes there. Even people that aren't rich relocate to places with a lower cost of living because of a better tax rates. When I say tax rates it goes beyond personal tax rates. When the businesses pay lower taxes then there goods become cheaper.
What's your problem with the rich?? Have you made higher studies to get a decent job or what? Live the rich alone, they busted their asses hard and sacrificed their youth to have what they got. So if you want to become rich, work hard and prove that you are better than the others my friend but don't be a welfare case and a burden for the society.
The same problem that some have with the poors...
vodkazvictim
Why save the world, when you can rule it?
75? tax means that government owns 75% of the business? In what world?
As for stagnating growth, I agree. Which is why I propose only to tax very succesfull businesses at such levels. To encourage growth, I believe in low, or even non-existent taxes for INDEPENDANT companies just starting up.
Who wants to work 20 hours overtime to get paid 5? Are you serious? Is this some kind of deliberately fallacious argument? Like anybody who's paid by the hour could ever be reasonably expected to pay 75% tax?! :wtf: What's your angle here?
Rich people can't take all their money out with them due to international money transfer fees, etc. Frankly, laws should exist to ensure that the rich should be unable to transfer industry changing amounts of cash out of the country. Taht's a little irrelevant because if a country is profitable, then they will stay, so why not tax them? You've failed to address the points I raised earlier, while I have addressed yours.
So let the rich move out. Somebody else will buy cars. Unless (as is appearing increasingly apparent to me) you're interested in a situation where ONLY the rich can buy cars.
Somebody else will buy the houses. The last thing we need is the rich raising the price of houses so that people have to wait until they're 40 to get their own house. The last thing we want is the rich buying several houses, charging rent to the poor, so that the poor pay the mortgage for the rich while the rich do nothing to earn that rent other than own the house (which, if they were born into wealth, as is likely, is the most likely situation).
Let the rich move out. The poor will eat in restaurants. I've worked in the restaurant trade and I'll tell you right now; the poor tip better.
Probably because they understand a hard days work and recognise that the waiter is doing just that, whereas the rich seem to labour under the illusion that "my back is aching from carrying this country!" As though they never got a business start up loan because of the country, as though the country doesn't keep the business situation favourable for the rich, as though the police don't protect them from those who would appropriate the fruits of their labour (so just how hard do the bankers work? Isn't it strange how the POOR are always bailing them out through taxes? If the rich were the financial powerhouses that we're led to believe, surely it would be THEM bailing out the country and not visa versa?)
I don't buy your claim. I believe that private industry always charges what the market will bear.
I have, and I'm still poor.
You think the rich study hard? They don't. Lord Sainsbury paid for a new wing of a university to be built. THAT'S how the children of the rich get their degrees.
The people who study hardest are academics. The richest people are bankers.
The rich never "bust their asses" with hard work. They simply shortchange the people who do the hard work, thereby profitting from it.
Sacrifice is an alien concept to the rich. Do the bankers sacrifice anything? No, but the people lose their education and health services, as the rich profit. Where's the sacrifice for the rich in that? There is none.
As for a welfare case, a burden on society, the rich are BOTH.
They avoid paying tax (which is a form of welfare), as such they form a burden on society because society (aka the poor) shoulder that burden for them.
One day, if they're very unlucky, the rich will wake up to find that they've killed the golden goose.
Until then, it remains only to point out how completely incorrect you are in every way shape and form through a much simpler medium than text: :georges:
:thefinger
(That one is just for fun )
Are they taxing income, or wealth...?
Income taxing is very hedgeable, and really only a topic for the non-wealthy...
Income taxing is very hedgeable, and really only a topic for the non-wealthy...
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
I'll stick by the government owning 75%. They are taking 3/4 of your profits. At this rate businesses and citizens are driven to move out taking with them jobs and money. You think there is an never ending flow of people to take over. Wrong. Once they get big enough they will follow the others out. A lower rate will keep this at home.
Chasing rich people out will not be replaced in another way. They will spend on a Lexus. They will pay $45 for a steak. They will buy $200 show tickets. They will rent and buy big homes and can do this anywhere. Why shrink the potential market for these goods and services, all of which employ people?
You're afraid of the rich raising prices because of their buying power? Shit, let them pay 2-3 times the price for a home next to mine. Knock it down, build it up, throw in a pool. Landscape the place. My land value goes up and people have work to do. Who loses in this? Local market has more customers that buy the better grade products. Go ahead and expand the place. They'll employ more people and give me a better selection. If it becomes a specialty store with higher prices then I'll open a discounted market right across the street. Both markets survive. You've got more money flowing into the town and thus better police and fire services. You need money to build this stuff and 75% is just going to chase it away.
There is an old saying in the retail business, It will cost you 7 times to get a new customer when you let an old one walk out the door.
Chasing rich people out will not be replaced in another way. They will spend on a Lexus. They will pay $45 for a steak. They will buy $200 show tickets. They will rent and buy big homes and can do this anywhere. Why shrink the potential market for these goods and services, all of which employ people?
You're afraid of the rich raising prices because of their buying power? Shit, let them pay 2-3 times the price for a home next to mine. Knock it down, build it up, throw in a pool. Landscape the place. My land value goes up and people have work to do. Who loses in this? Local market has more customers that buy the better grade products. Go ahead and expand the place. They'll employ more people and give me a better selection. If it becomes a specialty store with higher prices then I'll open a discounted market right across the street. Both markets survive. You've got more money flowing into the town and thus better police and fire services. You need money to build this stuff and 75% is just going to chase it away.
There is an old saying in the retail business, It will cost you 7 times to get a new customer when you let an old one walk out the door.
Income but the 75% tax is only for incomes over 1.000.000€
If you're making 1.100.000€, only 100.000 will be taxed with 75%.
French income tax is much lower for the lower and middle class but much higher for the upper-class than it is the US :
If you're in France, making 25.000€/year, you will pay 2160€ income tax
If you're in the US making $25.000/year, you will pay $3315 income tax
If you're in France, making 100.00€/year, you will pay 27641€ income tax
If you're in the US, making $100.000/year, you will pay $21458 income tax
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
I am glad you posted that. Here is what I found:
Table: French Income Tax Bands - 2012 Income Share Tax Rate
Up to €5,963 0%
Between €5,964 - €11,896 5.5%
Between €11,897 - €26,420 14%
Between €26,421 - €70,830 30%
Above €70,830 41%
Now do the math. You make 25k a year and you work hard enough to make 31k You just barely broke even on your take home pay on a 25% raise. To bring home 25% more take home you need a raise to 39k. Nearly double your salary to bring home just 25% more. That is fucking crazy. The incentive to stop working harder essentially stops at the 25k mark. You are basically spinning your wheels passed this point. Not a way to build a middle class.
Table: French Income Tax Bands - 2012 Income Share Tax Rate
Up to €5,963 0%
Between €5,964 - €11,896 5.5%
Between €11,897 - €26,420 14%
Between €26,421 - €70,830 30%
Above €70,830 41%
Now do the math. You make 25k a year and you work hard enough to make 31k You just barely broke even on your take home pay on a 25% raise. To bring home 25% more take home you need a raise to 39k. Nearly double your salary to bring home just 25% more. That is fucking crazy. The incentive to stop working harder essentially stops at the 25k mark. You are basically spinning your wheels passed this point. Not a way to build a middle class.
It is more a way to build the ghetto glass by helping continually helping the arabs and the blacks by paying higher taxes deducted on our salaries for giving them social helps, free healthcare and appartments before French born and bred citizens. But Johan voted for Hollande and is proud of it, Hollande voters prefer foreigners to their own people.
vodkazvictim
Why save the world, when you can rule it?
Provide a source please.
Again, provide a source please.
:georges:
What do you actually DO for a living, Georges?I'm sorry but I still don't see you addressing my points as I address yours. I realise my rebuttal of your points doesn't convince you, but at least I provide both rebuttal and rationale.
Maybe it will cost 7 times more to get a new customer, but the business isn't the customer here, the country is, the business should serve the nation, not visa versa.
There IS a never-ending stream of new businessmen. It keeps the market a lot more competitive to encourage the new with lower tax rates for small businesses and higher tax rates for the boys on top.
Why not let them walk out once we get big? As long as we control their finances and take the money off them when they do.
Frankly, if you can't compete, then you don't belong in business. I don't know why you seem to favour the larger players.
Making things easier for the boys on top simply results in a monopoly which benefits only the rich, not the country and not the customer.
Sure the rich will buy a Lexus, pay a lot for a few things, but the massive amount of purchases the poor make adds up to a lot more. Why do you think the poor are the primary target market of most products? Why do you think governments encourage people into part-time jobs? Because the poor spend a greater percentage of heir money, that's why.
Giving money to the poor gets the money flowing back into the system. The rich just sit on it, which leads to economic stagnation.
Since the rich will be replaced with new businesses and in any case seek to shrink and control markets and successfully do so, why not encourage competition by keeping them small?
Sure you need money to build stuff, which is WHY the rich should be taxed 75% and people should have their wealth removed before they're allowed to leave the country.
I'm percieving you as a money man now, why don't you tell me what you used to do for a living? Because I think you're retired.
If you leave the money with the rich, they just sit on it, which causes the economy to stagnate, which causes it to lose value. You can't argue that letting the rich get richer enriches the rest of us, because that's trickle down, and, well, frankly...
Attachments
You think that every rich kid is a lazy fuck and gets verything served on a plate
Are you that stupid?? I am not talking about bankers but engineers, sales executives, scientists, architects, software engineers, doctors, lawyers, baristers at law, dentists, high ranked officials and ceos. They started from nothing or from scratch and worked hard to be at the place where they are now. People who have studied hard, work hard and have a good salary are not forced to assist and share other's people misery. A big majority of people dislikes socialists yet you persist as if everybody likes them which is wrong. stop drinking the coolaid vodka :vodkazvictim: get realhttp://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/dg...=&typePage=cpr02&docOid=documentstandard_6182
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rp-11-52.pdf (page 6)
Using these datas, I did the maths myself.
The French system "choosed" to help those in the lower brackets to reach te middle brackets rather than helping those in the middle brackets to reach the upper brackets.
Such a system has its ups and its downs (george will probably answer this by pointing the downs).
I don't think the french system is better than the american system.
I don't think the american system is better than the french system.
Their objectives, their concept are different.
They both have ups and downs. And both should look at how the system works on the other side so that they could improve their own system.
Sam Fisher
Banned
The way I see it... most European people are still "Subjects". Where as American's are Citizens. Although, Obama and the rest of the Liberals are trying to "fix" that.
Have you ever thought about going to a ophtalmologist ?
If YES : Seems like he had his diploma in a lucky-box...
If NO : You realy should...
:georges:
I work in the IT Field since nearly 9 years as a large and multinational sales assistant and technical IT project coordinator for one of the biggest players of the IT world .
vodkazvictim
Why save the world, when you can rule it?
Not every rich kid, but many.You think that every rich kid is a lazy fuck and gets verything served on a plate
As for bankers, engineers, sales executives, scientists, architects, software engineers, doctors and dentists, I don't think of these people as rich, I think of them as not poor. I don't have any problem with them.
Now the CEOs are just awful, they often use shit policies, actually damage the companies they work for and have a kind of revolving door employment system which actively discourages them working for long term growth, which results in economic stagnation.
Some legal professionals can be good, but it annoys me when you see the rich guys coming from rich backgrounds making bloody stupid decisions, like the British judge who told a burglar how brave he was for breaking into peoples' homes.
How on Earth can you think that they started from scratch? Poor people have to work very hard to become middle class and only the middle class go on to enter all the professions you mentioned (except CEO).
As for the CEOs, it's always the same rich kids from rich families who've never done a real days work in their lives and just don't understand how tough it is on the bottom of the social ladder.
Maybe the majority of people do dislike Socialism, but this is based on misunderstanding, as Socialism is better for the majority of people. I find it highly amusing that you, of all people, are telling someone else to get real btw :georges:
Hey look, I finally got my own smiley, yay!!!! :vodkazvictim:
Tell us why most European people are subjects, but americans are citizens, sam.
I want to hear why most European countries have paid maternity leave for their subjecst, but americans don't have it for their citizens.
Let me guess, don't pay tax, non-domicile? :tongue:Phew, it's just income...
No problem, my accountant/banker has got that covered...
I see. I was beginning to think you were a financier or CEO.
:vodkazvictim: :vodkazvictim: :vodkazvictim: :vodkazvictim:
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
I don't see how your idea works. If I have a company that employs 300 people and the tax structure is choking my profits, I have 2 choices, shut down or move. Either way you now have 300 people not collecting a check there. You think 300 people are going to magically spring up and replace it in a week? No. If thing were so great under your theory then they wouldn't have to wait till I moved out. They can build it on their own at any time.
You think that profits go into people's pockets and just sit there. Wrong, they invest to create growth. And it's not just the millionaires, you and I have 401k plans that look to do the same thing. I have tried to explain in so many ways how 75% tax stagnates growth. I've even given you examples of how the higher taxes in the middle classes do the same thing. What are you not getting?
As as far as what I do, I get paid by the hour and live a simple lifestyle. I do some part time stuff just for my entertainment money. The money I have saved is not that much so retirement probably will never happen. I will most likely be working past my retirement age.
You think that profits go into people's pockets and just sit there. Wrong, they invest to create growth. And it's not just the millionaires, you and I have 401k plans that look to do the same thing. I have tried to explain in so many ways how 75% tax stagnates growth. I've even given you examples of how the higher taxes in the middle classes do the same thing. What are you not getting?
As as far as what I do, I get paid by the hour and live a simple lifestyle. I do some part time stuff just for my entertainment money. The money I have saved is not that much so retirement probably will never happen. I will most likely be working past my retirement age.
